All: please be respectful to one another, even if you disagree intensely. I don’t like deleting comments but I had to for the second time ever today over a commenter attacking another. Make your point but let’s keep the personal attacks out of it.
I'm not celebrating the notion that the healthcare situation in the US has devolved to the point where people feel there is no peaceful recourse to effect change. Treat people with respect and they will reciprocate. I'll shed no tears for terrible people reducing the lives of others to a cost/benefit equation, who then find out what desperate people are capable of. But Ana is right; once the door is opened to violence the situation will quickly devolve in a country with so many desperate people with easy access to firearms. Find another way.
United denied a surgery that would save my husband from long term hearing loss 3 times. The doctor pleaded my husband's case each time and it was still rejected and deemed unnecessary. The doctor finally just did the surgery for the cost of the equipment needed. With out involving United Healthcare. Doctors are sick of it too. Thank God for good doctors with kind hearts.
I am SO sorry to hear about what you've gone through with healthcare, and I'm also very happy to hear that the doctor stepped in to help. This system really is sick. I hope your husband is doing well and thriving. I would be absolutely out of my mind and irate if there was a chance of losing my husband over this disgustingly greedy industry.
Great job by telling the truth ❤️. It is really painful to see so many cancer patients selling their houses to pay for treatment. I feel really bad for them. I know how expensive to buy insurance and on top of it you still have to pay arm and leg for co-pays.
Ms.Kasparian and I are very different politically, I am very conservative and she is very liberal. Nevertheless I stand with her that murdering people for political aims such as health Insurance, abortion, racism, or anything is WRONG and results in only chaos. As a society I fear we are descending into a late 1850’s ethos of “THEY ARE EVIL AND WE MUST RESIST.” This bullshit of what will the conservatives spin or what will the progressives spin is STUPID. I am tired of woke idiocy and I am tired of far right idiocy.
C. S. Lewis described this well in his book “Pilgrims Regress” wherein the radical far right and far left merged into a true extreme wherein there was no difference.
I have accepted Christ as Savior and I will talk with and live at peace with anyone while working to gently lead them to eternal salvation. I will not try to force anyone to agree with me.
Ms Kasparian thank you for being a voice for reason. Ed
I'm similarly nonviolent personally. I feel like it's our duty to show people the ways in which they can enact the changes they want or need with the least harm possible. Even if we don't like the changes, it's better if they have the tools to express themselves so that we don't fall into mass violence and unrest.
Watch them somehow spin this into you being a grifter, a subverter of lefty values and a corporate apologist.
The moral condemnation, condescension, and the prudishness of these social media/influencers that represent the left faction actually is very off putting. Their aesthetic and presentation is just something a lot of people have an aversion to - the way they look, their rhetoric etc.
Right wing idiocy on social media and their opportunistic moguls makes my eyes roll, but the left equivalent of them, it just makes my skin crawl quite frankly.
Great article as always Ana! Agree 100%! Just finished watching your Glen Beck pod and some thoughts on that specifically: I think you and Cenk are right. It’s not so much right v left anymore as it’s populist vs establishment. Bc as a three time Trump voter, watching your show, I find little disagreement with either of you.
I also find when I watch online media that leans right, I find little fundamental disagreement between you and Cenk on TYT and those shows. I’m not talking about certain cultural issues and stuff, but in terms of fundamental positions such as corruption, anti war, budgets and economics, when I watch you guys, and for instance Tucker Carlson, I actually don’t see a massive difference. On certain cultural issues, mainly wedge issues, miles apart. But on core fundamentals, very much in alignment.
I hadn’t really thought about that much until this moment, that moment being watching this Glen Beck podcast, and watching you two have basically zero disagreements on any of the actual issues that are important (important to me anyway). I have said in comments before, I always watch you guys for my left wing perspective so I keep my views in check with reality, but tbh, it just hit me, I don’t disagree with you guys on much, and I don’t disagree with Glen Beck on much either. I don’t know if that interview opened your eyes on that, but for me, it really did make me realize that is for sure Populist vs Establishment, and it’s not left vs right at all really.
I agree for the most part. I don't think party labels make much sense anymore. Of course there some cultural or social disagreements where I think dialogue and compromise can lead to decent solutions. But when it comes to the core of who we are as Americans, I do think there IS a great deal of commitment. This country desperately needs to heal, and that can't happen with one party alone. We need working class Americans to come together and fight for a better tomorrow that includes real reforms in our healthcare industry and much better treatment of workers.
Anyway, thank you for sharing your thoughts with me, Dan!
I'm in between in this. I don't agree about including his family, but I also have zero sympathy for him. No, vigilante justice is not good, but also, it's refreshing to see someone kill a parasitical blood sucking CEO instead of a schoolroom of children. In terms of violence, I think that's oversimplified. Unless one is a pacifist ideologically, most of us believe that some form of violence is acceptable (most Americans I would guess support the American Revolution), certainly in the case armed resistance. So one can be against all violence, that's a fair personal view, but I wouldn't lump all violence into one bucket.
I have probably watched too many Datelines, but I wonder if his estranged wife ordered a hit on him and made it look like a vigilante murder. The killer was fairly brazen. Usually when an unhinged vigilante commits a murder they get caught fairly easily. We have photos of the guy but he hasn't been caught. How? Has he already been smuggled out of the country? Like I said, I've watched too many Datelines.
I live in OH, definitely a Trump state. Guess what we did? We enshrined the right to abortion in our state constitution. It can be done and if the states enacting these draconian laws aren’t careful, then they too will fall prey to the “long game” hopefully played by the left. No one wants to discuss the harsh realities of some aspects of abortion and hopefully recent events will allow that to happen. A good example is what in the living f*ck do you do with a baby that is aborted and is actually alive when it is delivered? It does happen sometimes - abortion is messy and the more advanced medicine becomes, the better chances we have at saving a fetus earlier and earlier in gestation which raises all sorts of ethical and legal questions about viability. We SHOULD be debating all of this on a constant basis all around the country. I’m good with that. As for what’s being said about this guy who just got murdered - while I understand the hate people feel, this seems to fall on the proverbial fence like every other freaking thing in the world today - that fine line between what’s humane and what’s insane. I have no answers; But it sure feels like every godd*amned thing that happens has become a dichotomy and pro choice people (me!) applauding the death of this guy (definitely NOT me!) is just more hypocritical irony on that dichotomous cake of life.
I'm pro choice. I volunteered both inside Planned Parenthood and as an abortion clinic escort during the 90's. Except in cases of rape, incest, or health of the mother, I don't think abortion should be legal after 15 weeks. Had this view been permitted rather than vilified by my fellow "progressives" over the past few decades, I doubt that Roe would have been overturned. But here we are.
100% agree. There can be no discussion about limits or realities until we remove the level of emotion currently overriding the logic and dare I say, the science. I think that if anyone actually SEES what a 15 week fetus looks like then there is a dangerous detachment to said reality. Someone has to “kill” that and to me, that is a loss of humanity beyond acceptability. I too support a 15 week ban with those exceptions.
Let's not strawman here. Being against extrajudicial killings of powerful people who exploit citizens at the mercy of the healthcare system is probably closer to a right wing position than a left wing one.
That being said, I AM against such killings. People who celebrate Healthcare CEOS getting murdered are the most chronically online people in the world.
I'm just curious if conservatives will turn it into a talking point in their fight against universal healthcare
I think turning this into a way to squash change in the health care system would be kind of hard to do. It’s obvious this guy was a lone crank. It was so smoothly pulled off I’m wondering if the killer wasn’t a hired hit man. We also don’t really know what the actual motive was.
The apparent contradiction between the death penalty and extra judicial violence is explained by two things. For one, the violence he directly serves is ongoing. That in itself isn't sufficient. In a legitimate representative government, that would be dealt with by regulation, but when every peaceful means of change is denied, violent change becomes inevitable. These people need leaders and direction so that it's not senseless violence, but violence in itself is necessary when the system doesn't protect you. I don't want to see anyone dead, but I deeply sympathize with people who don't see the other options, unionizing and organizing, available.
"There is no doubt that this system is cruel and untenable. Everyone (other than the executives) hates it, including doctors and healthcare workers." This wouldn't happen in a democracy.
i understand you are in a difficult position and that you likely hold different personal views. being a public figure with a wide audience comes with responsibilities, particularly avoiding the incitement of violence.
with that caveat, it seems common that even public figures have two minds on the issue of violence. on one hand, as you have described, "violence is never the answer" or something to that effect. on the other hand, state violence can often be approved or even encouraged.
on the issue of the idf vs hamas (not Palestinians), public figures have stated explicitly that special operations is the best way to counter hamas **directly** — granted TYT has held the over arching position that ending the genocide/occupation/oppression is the most effective means of making Israelis safe. prior to the genocide, it would have been considered self-defence but it is still violence, nonetheless.
you say that vigilante violence is generally a bad thing. i suppose under ideal conditions where the system is providing adequate protections and services to the people, and the ability for the people to improve upon the system to make updates when/where the system fails. but what if the system has been corrupted? and it has.
there are currently no means for the people to protect themselves against corporations or the wealthy if they decide to come after the people. sure, there are laws and there are some public servants acting in good faith but there is nothing ultimately preventing a complete upending of the system by the morally corrupted members of the ruling class. they own the policy makers at nearly every level of government.
the current behaviors of some corporations and wealthy individuals cause the mass suffering and death of millions per year. they know full well the consequences of their actions. they literally put aside money for the consequential lawsuits. it is as intentional as one can get. i mean they have debates and vote on it. it is not like some impulsive decision.
if they are knowingly harming and killing millions, in what world is that not mass violence/murder. they are crimes against humanity. and worse, they have changed the rules or found ways to navigate the system to avoid any significant repercussions and prevent any ability for the people to defend themselves through peaceful means within the rules of the system.
where is your line? how bad do things have to get before you support the use of special operations — potentially including violence — to be justified in order to defend the people?
I'm so sorry that not only does your family member have cancer, but they also have to navigate the healthcare system and insurance company fuckery. I hope all goes well. My heart goes to you and your family. ♥️
Death by policy is just as dead. I'm not sitting down to do the math, but by shear volume of denied claims Thompson has doubtless racked up more bodies than your average school shooter, street-level hitter, or serial killer. So hearing of his killing was surprising rather than distressing.
Now my sincere preference would be for any one of these 4 kinds of mass murders to be unmade by social policy (by which I mean the social conditions that generally drive people to kill should be treated as problems to be corrected), or at least caught alive and tried after the fact. Of course, one of those behaviors is not only legal, but the role through which it is enacted is valorized in "polite" society. That's a structural problem that isn't likely to be fixed by ventilating individual CEOs.
I mean, bright-side me dares to hope that future CEOs sit with just a little trepidation at the thought of funneling more money to shareholders by denying claims, and is glad the assassin went for the "decider" at the top rather than the grunts in the nearest office. The more likely outcome is that the next CEO just gets better security.
As for saying "Fuck his family too," it's hardly a humanist impulse, but this is what public microblogging (Twitter/X, blusky, etc) enables by its very structure. Its impact on public discourse is the digital equivalent of lead paint chips.
All: please be respectful to one another, even if you disagree intensely. I don’t like deleting comments but I had to for the second time ever today over a commenter attacking another. Make your point but let’s keep the personal attacks out of it.
I will be a gentleman. lol
I'm not celebrating the notion that the healthcare situation in the US has devolved to the point where people feel there is no peaceful recourse to effect change. Treat people with respect and they will reciprocate. I'll shed no tears for terrible people reducing the lives of others to a cost/benefit equation, who then find out what desperate people are capable of. But Ana is right; once the door is opened to violence the situation will quickly devolve in a country with so many desperate people with easy access to firearms. Find another way.
So well stated. Especially in regard to easy access to firearms.
United denied a surgery that would save my husband from long term hearing loss 3 times. The doctor pleaded my husband's case each time and it was still rejected and deemed unnecessary. The doctor finally just did the surgery for the cost of the equipment needed. With out involving United Healthcare. Doctors are sick of it too. Thank God for good doctors with kind hearts.
I am SO sorry to hear about what you've gone through with healthcare, and I'm also very happy to hear that the doctor stepped in to help. This system really is sick. I hope your husband is doing well and thriving. I would be absolutely out of my mind and irate if there was a chance of losing my husband over this disgustingly greedy industry.
Great job by telling the truth ❤️. It is really painful to see so many cancer patients selling their houses to pay for treatment. I feel really bad for them. I know how expensive to buy insurance and on top of it you still have to pay arm and leg for co-pays.
Ms.Kasparian and I are very different politically, I am very conservative and she is very liberal. Nevertheless I stand with her that murdering people for political aims such as health Insurance, abortion, racism, or anything is WRONG and results in only chaos. As a society I fear we are descending into a late 1850’s ethos of “THEY ARE EVIL AND WE MUST RESIST.” This bullshit of what will the conservatives spin or what will the progressives spin is STUPID. I am tired of woke idiocy and I am tired of far right idiocy.
C. S. Lewis described this well in his book “Pilgrims Regress” wherein the radical far right and far left merged into a true extreme wherein there was no difference.
I have accepted Christ as Savior and I will talk with and live at peace with anyone while working to gently lead them to eternal salvation. I will not try to force anyone to agree with me.
Ms Kasparian thank you for being a voice for reason. Ed
I'm similarly nonviolent personally. I feel like it's our duty to show people the ways in which they can enact the changes they want or need with the least harm possible. Even if we don't like the changes, it's better if they have the tools to express themselves so that we don't fall into mass violence and unrest.
Watch them somehow spin this into you being a grifter, a subverter of lefty values and a corporate apologist.
The moral condemnation, condescension, and the prudishness of these social media/influencers that represent the left faction actually is very off putting. Their aesthetic and presentation is just something a lot of people have an aversion to - the way they look, their rhetoric etc.
Right wing idiocy on social media and their opportunistic moguls makes my eyes roll, but the left equivalent of them, it just makes my skin crawl quite frankly.
We’re in a very bad place. I feel you.
Great article as always Ana! Agree 100%! Just finished watching your Glen Beck pod and some thoughts on that specifically: I think you and Cenk are right. It’s not so much right v left anymore as it’s populist vs establishment. Bc as a three time Trump voter, watching your show, I find little disagreement with either of you.
I also find when I watch online media that leans right, I find little fundamental disagreement between you and Cenk on TYT and those shows. I’m not talking about certain cultural issues and stuff, but in terms of fundamental positions such as corruption, anti war, budgets and economics, when I watch you guys, and for instance Tucker Carlson, I actually don’t see a massive difference. On certain cultural issues, mainly wedge issues, miles apart. But on core fundamentals, very much in alignment.
I hadn’t really thought about that much until this moment, that moment being watching this Glen Beck podcast, and watching you two have basically zero disagreements on any of the actual issues that are important (important to me anyway). I have said in comments before, I always watch you guys for my left wing perspective so I keep my views in check with reality, but tbh, it just hit me, I don’t disagree with you guys on much, and I don’t disagree with Glen Beck on much either. I don’t know if that interview opened your eyes on that, but for me, it really did make me realize that is for sure Populist vs Establishment, and it’s not left vs right at all really.
I agree for the most part. I don't think party labels make much sense anymore. Of course there some cultural or social disagreements where I think dialogue and compromise can lead to decent solutions. But when it comes to the core of who we are as Americans, I do think there IS a great deal of commitment. This country desperately needs to heal, and that can't happen with one party alone. We need working class Americans to come together and fight for a better tomorrow that includes real reforms in our healthcare industry and much better treatment of workers.
Anyway, thank you for sharing your thoughts with me, Dan!
I'm in between in this. I don't agree about including his family, but I also have zero sympathy for him. No, vigilante justice is not good, but also, it's refreshing to see someone kill a parasitical blood sucking CEO instead of a schoolroom of children. In terms of violence, I think that's oversimplified. Unless one is a pacifist ideologically, most of us believe that some form of violence is acceptable (most Americans I would guess support the American Revolution), certainly in the case armed resistance. So one can be against all violence, that's a fair personal view, but I wouldn't lump all violence into one bucket.
I have probably watched too many Datelines, but I wonder if his estranged wife ordered a hit on him and made it look like a vigilante murder. The killer was fairly brazen. Usually when an unhinged vigilante commits a murder they get caught fairly easily. We have photos of the guy but he hasn't been caught. How? Has he already been smuggled out of the country? Like I said, I've watched too many Datelines.
Ana,
Well put. The victim was not the problem.
I live in OH, definitely a Trump state. Guess what we did? We enshrined the right to abortion in our state constitution. It can be done and if the states enacting these draconian laws aren’t careful, then they too will fall prey to the “long game” hopefully played by the left. No one wants to discuss the harsh realities of some aspects of abortion and hopefully recent events will allow that to happen. A good example is what in the living f*ck do you do with a baby that is aborted and is actually alive when it is delivered? It does happen sometimes - abortion is messy and the more advanced medicine becomes, the better chances we have at saving a fetus earlier and earlier in gestation which raises all sorts of ethical and legal questions about viability. We SHOULD be debating all of this on a constant basis all around the country. I’m good with that. As for what’s being said about this guy who just got murdered - while I understand the hate people feel, this seems to fall on the proverbial fence like every other freaking thing in the world today - that fine line between what’s humane and what’s insane. I have no answers; But it sure feels like every godd*amned thing that happens has become a dichotomy and pro choice people (me!) applauding the death of this guy (definitely NOT me!) is just more hypocritical irony on that dichotomous cake of life.
I'm pro choice. I volunteered both inside Planned Parenthood and as an abortion clinic escort during the 90's. Except in cases of rape, incest, or health of the mother, I don't think abortion should be legal after 15 weeks. Had this view been permitted rather than vilified by my fellow "progressives" over the past few decades, I doubt that Roe would have been overturned. But here we are.
100% agree. There can be no discussion about limits or realities until we remove the level of emotion currently overriding the logic and dare I say, the science. I think that if anyone actually SEES what a 15 week fetus looks like then there is a dangerous detachment to said reality. Someone has to “kill” that and to me, that is a loss of humanity beyond acceptability. I too support a 15 week ban with those exceptions.
I'm morbidly curious about what kind of conservative talking point is going to come out of this tragedy.
Looking forward to your declaration that that being against extrajudicial killings of corporate execs is right wing.
Let's not strawman here. Being against extrajudicial killings of powerful people who exploit citizens at the mercy of the healthcare system is probably closer to a right wing position than a left wing one.
That being said, I AM against such killings. People who celebrate Healthcare CEOS getting murdered are the most chronically online people in the world.
I'm just curious if conservatives will turn it into a talking point in their fight against universal healthcare
I think turning this into a way to squash change in the health care system would be kind of hard to do. It’s obvious this guy was a lone crank. It was so smoothly pulled off I’m wondering if the killer wasn’t a hired hit man. We also don’t really know what the actual motive was.
In the world of politics, facts don't matter, friend. All that matters is what narrative can you craft.
For sure.
The apparent contradiction between the death penalty and extra judicial violence is explained by two things. For one, the violence he directly serves is ongoing. That in itself isn't sufficient. In a legitimate representative government, that would be dealt with by regulation, but when every peaceful means of change is denied, violent change becomes inevitable. These people need leaders and direction so that it's not senseless violence, but violence in itself is necessary when the system doesn't protect you. I don't want to see anyone dead, but I deeply sympathize with people who don't see the other options, unionizing and organizing, available.
You realize that's a super radical stance, right? Violence is very, very rarely ever the answer, and even then, usually only in self defense
"There is no doubt that this system is cruel and untenable. Everyone (other than the executives) hates it, including doctors and healthcare workers." This wouldn't happen in a democracy.
i understand you are in a difficult position and that you likely hold different personal views. being a public figure with a wide audience comes with responsibilities, particularly avoiding the incitement of violence.
with that caveat, it seems common that even public figures have two minds on the issue of violence. on one hand, as you have described, "violence is never the answer" or something to that effect. on the other hand, state violence can often be approved or even encouraged.
on the issue of the idf vs hamas (not Palestinians), public figures have stated explicitly that special operations is the best way to counter hamas **directly** — granted TYT has held the over arching position that ending the genocide/occupation/oppression is the most effective means of making Israelis safe. prior to the genocide, it would have been considered self-defence but it is still violence, nonetheless.
you say that vigilante violence is generally a bad thing. i suppose under ideal conditions where the system is providing adequate protections and services to the people, and the ability for the people to improve upon the system to make updates when/where the system fails. but what if the system has been corrupted? and it has.
there are currently no means for the people to protect themselves against corporations or the wealthy if they decide to come after the people. sure, there are laws and there are some public servants acting in good faith but there is nothing ultimately preventing a complete upending of the system by the morally corrupted members of the ruling class. they own the policy makers at nearly every level of government.
the current behaviors of some corporations and wealthy individuals cause the mass suffering and death of millions per year. they know full well the consequences of their actions. they literally put aside money for the consequential lawsuits. it is as intentional as one can get. i mean they have debates and vote on it. it is not like some impulsive decision.
if they are knowingly harming and killing millions, in what world is that not mass violence/murder. they are crimes against humanity. and worse, they have changed the rules or found ways to navigate the system to avoid any significant repercussions and prevent any ability for the people to defend themselves through peaceful means within the rules of the system.
where is your line? how bad do things have to get before you support the use of special operations — potentially including violence — to be justified in order to defend the people?
I'm so sorry that not only does your family member have cancer, but they also have to navigate the healthcare system and insurance company fuckery. I hope all goes well. My heart goes to you and your family. ♥️
Death by policy is just as dead. I'm not sitting down to do the math, but by shear volume of denied claims Thompson has doubtless racked up more bodies than your average school shooter, street-level hitter, or serial killer. So hearing of his killing was surprising rather than distressing.
Now my sincere preference would be for any one of these 4 kinds of mass murders to be unmade by social policy (by which I mean the social conditions that generally drive people to kill should be treated as problems to be corrected), or at least caught alive and tried after the fact. Of course, one of those behaviors is not only legal, but the role through which it is enacted is valorized in "polite" society. That's a structural problem that isn't likely to be fixed by ventilating individual CEOs.
I mean, bright-side me dares to hope that future CEOs sit with just a little trepidation at the thought of funneling more money to shareholders by denying claims, and is glad the assassin went for the "decider" at the top rather than the grunts in the nearest office. The more likely outcome is that the next CEO just gets better security.
As for saying "Fuck his family too," it's hardly a humanist impulse, but this is what public microblogging (Twitter/X, blusky, etc) enables by its very structure. Its impact on public discourse is the digital equivalent of lead paint chips.