First, how can anyone not absolutely love Kurt Gray?! He's really great. Thank you for having him on, and I hope we see more of him. I enjoyed this episode a lot because it reminded me, which I need (frequently), that my resistance and triggering are based on fear. Logically, I know most people are legitimately trying to do the right thing the best they know how, and when I see others through this lens, I am happier and can create genuine connections with people. That's my ultimate goal. About a month before the election, I started working on how fear runs my thoughts, feelings, etc., and, as we know, when you ask for something like that, you don't magically have it bestowed upon you; it tests you. Boy, did that become a be-careful-what-you-wish-for situation! 😂
Awesome Drea. I’m with you and it definitely takes a lot of effort to break decades of certain thought patterns. With Ana’s help we’ll get there! (or to some reasonable approximation of “there”)
I love what you are doing Ana! This was great. Anyone who has family or people in their life on the “other side” knows that what he is saying is true. We need to keep talking to each other. It’s the only way forward. ❤️
Thanks for this Ana, very interesting. I’m glad that so many of us are interested in reaching across the aisle and trying to understand people with different opinions rather than just demonizing them. I used to do that and if I’m honest, I will admit that I miss the sense of superiority that I felt. But, it was false, and I guess I knew it all the time. In fact, the more I suspected that I was criticizing half the country to make myself feel better, the more bitter I became as a person. It is helpful to remind myself: "The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart." Keep up the great work.
Ana, i dont know if you realize how talented of a interviewer you are. I see exactly what youre trying to achieve in your career, and i want to tell you my observations as a long time listener to help you overcome your fears of others rejecting nuanced journalism. Your biggest strength is your ability to do interviews. The advantage of interviews is it allows the journalist to be more nuanced. When youre reporting on TYT, most of the criticism against nuance comes from audience capture. You have these angry liberals who are trying to control the content, and thats why theyve been critical of every nuance you introduce to the audience. Honestly, in my opinion TYT has always been nuanced moreso than other shows, so its not you who has changed but rather its the attitude of the audience that has changed in their attitudes towards real reporting of nuanced facts. I think the interview format is not only your biggest strength, but its also the best format to be able to engage in more nuanced journalism. Examples of successful interviewers include Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson, or the biggest of all 60 Minutes. I love these interviews on substack because youre interviewing people I've never heard of. But in order for you to overcome your fear of the audience not wanting nuanced journalism, i think its important to recognize building a large audience usually does require big names and big interviews. I would personally like to see you do both. You could interview lesser known intellectuals in one show, then interview big named famous people in another show. This way, you can introduce people to the nuances of lesser named people, while at the same time gathering large audiences by interviewing the big names. The most important employee to hire is the person who can do bookings for big names. You did a great job on your interview today on TYT. I hope my observations help you. You are amazingly good at interviewing, and i have no doubt people will continue to listen to your nuanced journalism and reporting. But its the algorithm that requires an amazing booking agent, and thats how you will overcome your fear. If you dont have a booking agent i have years of sales and moonshot project experience, sales is just a numbers game, but im sure Cenk already has a booking agent for you. The more people you reach out to the more big interviews you will book. I really love these shows, i want more interviews. I love your news reporting and passionate salt throwing too, but your strengths really shine in your interviews.
I'll vehemently disagree on multiple points. Many on the right are not out to protect the world. They are out to protect themselves and clearly do not care about anyone else who gets harmed. That's the difference. There is absolutely a selfishness and cruelty to those who are in vs. those who are OUT of the group. As your own example shows - those who are in OUR TEAM that is baptised are saved, THE OTHERS CAN JUST BE BURNED ALIVE FOR ETERNITY.
We don't agree that fraud is bad. If fraud was bad, Trump wouldn't be the Republican nominee. He's been found guilty of fraud more than once. For Republicans, fraud is just getting caught "doing what everyone else does". Unless, of course, you're stealing from them or their tribe - then there will be zero forgiveness.
As a liberal - I care about people I don't know, who are not my tribe, who I have never met, who are not in my personal situation or belief system. I do not just care about my family, my tribe, my church, my well-being. My vote is based on E Pluribus Unum, not In God We Trust.
Nancy, i think you are just proving the point of the interviewee. You catch more bees with honey than vinegar. The point of the interviewee is that data shows the other group is not cruel, but the tribalism of your left wing circle convinces you that anyone outside of your bubble is "cruel" or evil. Your perspective sounds similar to what I hear on CNN or MSNBC, and that is just manufactured fear porn in order to energize you to support some more rich corporate cronies. Its like "Donald Trump is cruel and committed fraud, therefore we should hate 75% of the country who has nothing to do with that". People who voted for Trump, including myself, didnt vote for him because we think he is a saint. We voted for him because of the policies of the democrats and the promised policies during his campaign. I use the term "puritanism" to describe your perspective. You view all of your views to be correct, and all of Trump's views to be incorrect. The real world is more nuanced than that. Democrats did really terrible things the past four years. We need to get money out of politics, and im glad Republicans are beginning to join that fight against corruption.
I’m strongly pro-choice and yet I’ve come to understand that tens of millions of Americans genuinely believe that abortion is murder (and to them, that is absolutely caring about beings that are not just about their family, tribe, etc.).
Right up until the moment it's born, and then of course it's "don't have kids you can't afford", "anchor baby", etc. etc. They only care about the concept of the child, not the actual child. If they cared about the actual child, cutting WIC / SNAP would be met with the same ferocity as abortion protests - but it's not.
I agree that there can be a huge disconnect between essentially forced birth vs no desire to support babies/kids after. They’d push back and say getting pregnant wasn’t a requirement, it was a choice, and regardless that not murdering is better than murdering. Reducing unplanned pregnancies and improving support for young moms would ideally be areas for common ground.
Yes, agreed. But these are the same folks that want no sex education in school at all or abstinence-only, "girls are used bubble gum" shaming. They are horrified at the idea of talking to tweens about the issue before they are going to be sexually active. By the time that group says a teen is old enough, it's way too late to have the conversation. They hate every form of birth control, condoms, plan B, nothing makes them happy except fear and shame. Their answer is more fear, more shame, more child brides, more surveillance and restrictions of teenage girls, more dress codes.... more authoritarianism.
I would have loved nothing more than an agreement in the late 90's to have been struck to encourage comprehensive sex education, greater access to short and long term birth control, emergency contraception and everyone working together to reduce unplanned pregnancies with Colorado's IUD example as a program that would have accomplished that goal.
So what does that tell me about the actual goal of the right? If they refuse every option that has credible, factual evidence to work to reduce unplanned pregnancies and support only the authoritarian method that just so happens to encourage being more controlling of women specifically...
The only part I take issue with is collapsing the many, many millions of anti-abortion people as “the right”, and claiming that they’re ALL motivated by a desire to control women. If you even had a little wiggle room and said “most” it would be more accurate, but even that is probably unfair.
Hardcore religious zealots are never likely to budge and accept common sense ways to reduce unplanned pregnancy, but most people aren’t hardcore religious zealots! Including many who voted for Trump.
The problem is that while many, many will swear up and down they don't want to control women - at some point you have to stop excusing it when that's the inevitable end result.
I can say I care about the job losses caused by moving to green energy - but if I keep voting against retraining funds for West Virginia, vote to cut student aid, vote to cut rural broadband funding, etc. etc. - and I insist all those people just need to pull themselves up harder by their bootstraps and "get with the 21st century and stop living in the past"... do I actually care about the plight of those dsiplaced rural workers in West Virginia? Or is that revealing that deep down, I don't consider their concerns valid and don't value them and pretty much consider them disposable.
I love this talk. Great work.
Another good podcast Ana good job.
First, how can anyone not absolutely love Kurt Gray?! He's really great. Thank you for having him on, and I hope we see more of him. I enjoyed this episode a lot because it reminded me, which I need (frequently), that my resistance and triggering are based on fear. Logically, I know most people are legitimately trying to do the right thing the best they know how, and when I see others through this lens, I am happier and can create genuine connections with people. That's my ultimate goal. About a month before the election, I started working on how fear runs my thoughts, feelings, etc., and, as we know, when you ask for something like that, you don't magically have it bestowed upon you; it tests you. Boy, did that become a be-careful-what-you-wish-for situation! 😂
Awesome Drea. I’m with you and it definitely takes a lot of effort to break decades of certain thought patterns. With Ana’s help we’ll get there! (or to some reasonable approximation of “there”)
Thank you, I appreciate your support and understanding! 🙏
I love what you are doing Ana! This was great. Anyone who has family or people in their life on the “other side” knows that what he is saying is true. We need to keep talking to each other. It’s the only way forward. ❤️
Thanks for this Ana, very interesting. I’m glad that so many of us are interested in reaching across the aisle and trying to understand people with different opinions rather than just demonizing them. I used to do that and if I’m honest, I will admit that I miss the sense of superiority that I felt. But, it was false, and I guess I knew it all the time. In fact, the more I suspected that I was criticizing half the country to make myself feel better, the more bitter I became as a person. It is helpful to remind myself: "The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart." Keep up the great work.
Ana, i dont know if you realize how talented of a interviewer you are. I see exactly what youre trying to achieve in your career, and i want to tell you my observations as a long time listener to help you overcome your fears of others rejecting nuanced journalism. Your biggest strength is your ability to do interviews. The advantage of interviews is it allows the journalist to be more nuanced. When youre reporting on TYT, most of the criticism against nuance comes from audience capture. You have these angry liberals who are trying to control the content, and thats why theyve been critical of every nuance you introduce to the audience. Honestly, in my opinion TYT has always been nuanced moreso than other shows, so its not you who has changed but rather its the attitude of the audience that has changed in their attitudes towards real reporting of nuanced facts. I think the interview format is not only your biggest strength, but its also the best format to be able to engage in more nuanced journalism. Examples of successful interviewers include Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson, or the biggest of all 60 Minutes. I love these interviews on substack because youre interviewing people I've never heard of. But in order for you to overcome your fear of the audience not wanting nuanced journalism, i think its important to recognize building a large audience usually does require big names and big interviews. I would personally like to see you do both. You could interview lesser known intellectuals in one show, then interview big named famous people in another show. This way, you can introduce people to the nuances of lesser named people, while at the same time gathering large audiences by interviewing the big names. The most important employee to hire is the person who can do bookings for big names. You did a great job on your interview today on TYT. I hope my observations help you. You are amazingly good at interviewing, and i have no doubt people will continue to listen to your nuanced journalism and reporting. But its the algorithm that requires an amazing booking agent, and thats how you will overcome your fear. If you dont have a booking agent i have years of sales and moonshot project experience, sales is just a numbers game, but im sure Cenk already has a booking agent for you. The more people you reach out to the more big interviews you will book. I really love these shows, i want more interviews. I love your news reporting and passionate salt throwing too, but your strengths really shine in your interviews.
I'll vehemently disagree on multiple points. Many on the right are not out to protect the world. They are out to protect themselves and clearly do not care about anyone else who gets harmed. That's the difference. There is absolutely a selfishness and cruelty to those who are in vs. those who are OUT of the group. As your own example shows - those who are in OUR TEAM that is baptised are saved, THE OTHERS CAN JUST BE BURNED ALIVE FOR ETERNITY.
We don't agree that fraud is bad. If fraud was bad, Trump wouldn't be the Republican nominee. He's been found guilty of fraud more than once. For Republicans, fraud is just getting caught "doing what everyone else does". Unless, of course, you're stealing from them or their tribe - then there will be zero forgiveness.
As a liberal - I care about people I don't know, who are not my tribe, who I have never met, who are not in my personal situation or belief system. I do not just care about my family, my tribe, my church, my well-being. My vote is based on E Pluribus Unum, not In God We Trust.
Nancy, i think you are just proving the point of the interviewee. You catch more bees with honey than vinegar. The point of the interviewee is that data shows the other group is not cruel, but the tribalism of your left wing circle convinces you that anyone outside of your bubble is "cruel" or evil. Your perspective sounds similar to what I hear on CNN or MSNBC, and that is just manufactured fear porn in order to energize you to support some more rich corporate cronies. Its like "Donald Trump is cruel and committed fraud, therefore we should hate 75% of the country who has nothing to do with that". People who voted for Trump, including myself, didnt vote for him because we think he is a saint. We voted for him because of the policies of the democrats and the promised policies during his campaign. I use the term "puritanism" to describe your perspective. You view all of your views to be correct, and all of Trump's views to be incorrect. The real world is more nuanced than that. Democrats did really terrible things the past four years. We need to get money out of politics, and im glad Republicans are beginning to join that fight against corruption.
I’m strongly pro-choice and yet I’ve come to understand that tens of millions of Americans genuinely believe that abortion is murder (and to them, that is absolutely caring about beings that are not just about their family, tribe, etc.).
Right up until the moment it's born, and then of course it's "don't have kids you can't afford", "anchor baby", etc. etc. They only care about the concept of the child, not the actual child. If they cared about the actual child, cutting WIC / SNAP would be met with the same ferocity as abortion protests - but it's not.
I agree that there can be a huge disconnect between essentially forced birth vs no desire to support babies/kids after. They’d push back and say getting pregnant wasn’t a requirement, it was a choice, and regardless that not murdering is better than murdering. Reducing unplanned pregnancies and improving support for young moms would ideally be areas for common ground.
Yes, agreed. But these are the same folks that want no sex education in school at all or abstinence-only, "girls are used bubble gum" shaming. They are horrified at the idea of talking to tweens about the issue before they are going to be sexually active. By the time that group says a teen is old enough, it's way too late to have the conversation. They hate every form of birth control, condoms, plan B, nothing makes them happy except fear and shame. Their answer is more fear, more shame, more child brides, more surveillance and restrictions of teenage girls, more dress codes.... more authoritarianism.
I would have loved nothing more than an agreement in the late 90's to have been struck to encourage comprehensive sex education, greater access to short and long term birth control, emergency contraception and everyone working together to reduce unplanned pregnancies with Colorado's IUD example as a program that would have accomplished that goal.
So what does that tell me about the actual goal of the right? If they refuse every option that has credible, factual evidence to work to reduce unplanned pregnancies and support only the authoritarian method that just so happens to encourage being more controlling of women specifically...
The only part I take issue with is collapsing the many, many millions of anti-abortion people as “the right”, and claiming that they’re ALL motivated by a desire to control women. If you even had a little wiggle room and said “most” it would be more accurate, but even that is probably unfair.
Hardcore religious zealots are never likely to budge and accept common sense ways to reduce unplanned pregnancy, but most people aren’t hardcore religious zealots! Including many who voted for Trump.
The problem is that while many, many will swear up and down they don't want to control women - at some point you have to stop excusing it when that's the inevitable end result.
I can say I care about the job losses caused by moving to green energy - but if I keep voting against retraining funds for West Virginia, vote to cut student aid, vote to cut rural broadband funding, etc. etc. - and I insist all those people just need to pull themselves up harder by their bootstraps and "get with the 21st century and stop living in the past"... do I actually care about the plight of those dsiplaced rural workers in West Virginia? Or is that revealing that deep down, I don't consider their concerns valid and don't value them and pretty much consider them disposable.
Kurt & Ana, I'm disappointed you both didn't mention either of these that directly align with this mission:
Braver Angels - https://braverangels.org/
Living Room Conversations https://livingroomconversations.org/